Leveraging phygital NFTs to bring the first Hedera native-hardware wallet

In this episode of the Hedera corner, King Solomon from Genfinity hosts the CEO of Citadel hardware wallet. As the first truly Hedera native Hardware wallet, Citadel will leverage all of the available services in the Hedera network. Coming in late 2023, Citadel has taken a phygital approach and sold NFTs to preorder the hardware pieces.

Transcription

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
All right, I know HBAR the Moon with it, we're having some rugging issues on Twitter spaces, but hopefully we can nail this down. So, how you doing today?

‍Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Good, good Ryan, thanks for having me. Yeah, I've been having some Twitter spaces issues, it keeps dropping off, but if it does, I'll try to reconnect it again and hopefully we'll make it to the end of this Twitter spaces. Great to be here.

‍Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Would love for you, I mean, most of you guys, I'm sure some of you guys know down there, but HBAR to the moon has been in the Hedera ecosystem for, I probably, I don't know if it might be longer than me, it's definitely been a few years. If you could maybe give an overview and some background of yourself, and then maybe just kind of a brief overview of Citadel as well, and then we'll get into some more definitive questions, that would be fantastic. But I heard your question, I can answer it. Yeah, yeah, feel free. Yeah, please just maybe an overview. If we do run into issues, we will definitely, we'll even do like a sidebar one and try to just get you up here on a day that Twitter isn't being crazy. So yeah, please, please go ahead.

‍Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, yeah, no worries. Like you said, I've been around at the Hedera ecosystem right since day one when Hedera was announced to be a public network. And before that, I was following the network, learning about the technology, and I was fascinated by the promise of this network and decided to get involved and promote the network initially and get the word out to people who might not be really understanding about this new technology because all talk was about blockchains before that. And eventually, slowly being an engineer myself, decided to build this hardware wallet on the network. We're building a Hedera-specific hardware wallet, and the whole goal of this hardware wallet is for users, daily users of the Hedera network, to be able to interact with the network on a daily basis and do and send all kinds of transactions directly from the hardware wallet itself without compromising the security of their private keys. And also just simplifying the whole process of interacting with the network, not having to keep a copy of your private keys, and if you lose it, you don't know how to then import it back into the software wallet. It creates all kinds of different security risks if you have to keep copy and pasting the private keys into software wallets, especially in multiple different devices. So the goal is to have this one device that protects your private keys, make sure that you have the highest security possible, and easily pair with software, your favorite software wallets, and interact with dApps that you've been interacting with the same way that you used to do it, and just now you have that added layer of security and instead of the software wallet signing your transactions, so the wallet will do this as transaction signing course and the rest will still be handled by the software wallet itself. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, I think most of us that do use Ledger or some of these Cold Storage wallets understand that yeah, it's fantastic having that additional level of security. But really, the user experience and interaction sometimes gets a little bit fuzzy, I guess I'll say. If you can maybe just give an overview of how the Citadel initiative started. I don't, I think I interviewed you a while back, and I won't drop anything into, you know, definitively, but I, you know, you work for some pretty high level players from what you build out in your personal career. Maybe touch base a little bit on your experience, and then touch base a little bit on the software side aspects that you're working with, Builder Labs and Headstarter as well, that'd be great.‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, great question, Ryan. So in my personal career, I've been an electrical engineer, hardware engineer since 2016, so I've been in the industry for about seven, almost eight years. It's crazy now that I think about it. It's been so many years that I've been working in the industry as an electrical engineer, and I've been work I have worked in an automotive industrial industry, developing systems that are more ruggedized and embedded for specific industrial type applications. And recently, last three to four years, I've been more involved in avionic and military type industries where we develop systems, data processing, and video processing head-up displays, very high security focused systems for aircraft and other military vehicle type applications where you can imagine security is the highest priority for those kinds of industries. So I've dealt with developing very complex systems compared to Hardware wallet. This is a really complex system with multiple, multiple different motherboards with multiple different processors, and I have designed from ground up these kinds of systems. And it was just a no-brainer for me to also experiment and develop some the hardware wallet eventually, but that's a little bit about my background. I cannot tell you guys too many details understandably, it is government-related, and I cannot disclose too much of what I've been working on, but it's been a really interesting journey in my personal career, and I'm really happy to bring that knowledge and experience, especially the security side of things, to Hedera network now in the shape of this Hardware wallet product. From a software standpoint, like you mentioned, I've been working with Builder Labs, which is the software development arm of HeadStarter, who are very talented, and they have experience with Hedera network. Obviously, they have played with the network, they understand the SDKs, they have developed libraries that simplify development of applications on Hedera network as well, and they also have experience with this kind of smaller, low power IoT type secure devices, which was the perfect combination of knowledge base to bring them on board and help me, and thanks to them for trusting and believing in the project and putting their fate into the project this early on in the product development. And we have made already a lot of great progress. Some of the tutorials of the wallet are out, and some of the images of the wallet are out for people to check out. And we just, I'm really happy we just recently had the initial round of pre-orders for the wallet, and we got pre-orders of over 1600 wallets, which is just crazy to me. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Yeah, I was looking at that. I'm pretty sure that you guys have. And I'll dive more into the NFT aspects here shortly, but I'm pretty sure you guys raised around 3.2 million Hbars, which is correct me if I'm wrong there, but that's a pretty staggering figure given where we're at in the market. Is that the correct figure? ‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
It is, yeah. Close to 3.4 million H bars, and the pre-sales are still ongoing for anybody who's interested to pre-order the wallets and get those cool NFTs along with it. But it was a huge success for Citadel wallet for Hbar NFTs just in general. I think it's a record-breaking number to raise that much funds through NFTs, and a huge success for HeadStarter platform as well to host a project that raised so much funds. And it's going to eventually help the project to go to market and bring that extra value of the hardware wallet product along with its security to the daily users of the network.‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Yep, I wanted to get into this a little bit because if you go to Head Starter's page, it obviously talks about the pre-sale in the NFTs and all these aspects, but I'm really interested in talking about the challenge that they have on here. On their page, it says the hardware wallet industry is still in its early stages, there's significant room for improvements. Some major issues Citadel wallet is working on addressing includes limited feature support with hardware wallets, security with hardware wallets, ease of use, battery life time, as well. You might know a little bit more on this, or maybe that would be Builder, but the most commonly used hardware wallets in the crypto industry often utilize secure elements with a lower CC EAL-5+ safety certification level. Maybe just as a broad overview, can you talk about some of the challenges and how you plan to really make the hardware wallet that Citadel is going to be providing just a better user experience overall that is safer? That would be fantastic.‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, there are a few different challenges that the industry is still facing, and we're trying to address all those through our hardware wallet. One of them you had mentioned earlier on is the user how user-enter, how easy it is to use this kind of devices. A lot of times, it becomes very frustrating when you have to import the phrases into the wallet. You have just very a few buttons to interact with. It gets frustrating. The screen is small, there's no touch screen. From the user's standpoint, we wanted to make sure that this wallet brings that user experience to the daily users of Hedera network, similar to what they're used to through their mobile devices. Hardware wallets are still in the early stages of this industry, so the devices are very simple, and they haven't put in too much effort and thought into product development, the product, the experience of people interacting with these devices day-to-day basis. And my goal right from the beginning was to have a device that people not only it secures their assets but also they just enjoy using it. It's very easy to interact with it. And to achieve that, we have a touch screen large enough for people to be able to see full messages on the screen and not being able to have to scroll to pages to see the full message and understand. What transaction they're signing? We have buttons for paring on and off the device, and also the special button for approving or rejecting transactions for security reasons. A lot of people have raised that concern, what if I by accident touch the touch screen and approve something I didn't mean to? And for those kinds of reasons, we have added that extra button you have to press and hold, and there is no way that you could approve a trans. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
I think you might be rugging again, let's see if you come back in a second here. We'll give them a second, Valor. While we're waiting, can we potentially go to Citadel Wallet's Twitter page? And I think they had a pretty cool video showing the wallet, or at least, you know, pin something up to the Jumbotron if possible. Absolutely. HBAR to the Moon, are you back, or are you still rugged? I think you might still be rugged. I will say though, on top of that, like if you look at there's a site that they have that is docs.citadel-wallet.io, and then you go to use cases, it's really interesting. And I wanted to ask HBAR to the Moon, so I hope he comes back up, about all the potential use cases and they have listed here: gaming, supply chain, DeFi, NFTs, tokenization, payments, ESG or sustainability, decentralized ID, data integrity, internet of things, and proof of action. And I wanted what I wanted to ask HBAR to the Moon is because it says on here, 'Citadel Wallet supports the following Hedera services.' I wanted to ask if this is at the onset, or if these are some things that are going to be layered in over time. And these are the services that Citadel Wallet says that they support. And there's a bunch of bullet points here, so HBAR native cryptocurrency store and transfer, pretty much boilerplate with any Hardware wallet out there, but then it gets more into HTS or Hedera token service, fungible token association, storage and transfer, HTS NFT association, store and transfer, HTS or Hedera token surface service, fungible token and NFT create, mint, freeze, burn. That's pretty cool if you can actually go on and create NFTs through a hardware wallet. Smart contracts 2.0 creating sign their consensus service, message submit transactions, native staking, which we do know I think Ledger supports staking through HashPack as well. Right now logging into Dapps, scheduled transactions, random number generation, file service. Pretty crazy amounts of use cases up there at kind of the onset. So if HBAR to the Moon drogs and comes back up, would love to ask about that. While we're kind of waiting, I know we have Warlock up here, so Warlock, I know you had your hand raised. If you have anything to add, that'd be great.‍

LedgerWorks – Warlock
I don't have a whole lot to add, but I can, you know, I'm great at filling time. How are you feeling today, King Solomon? ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
It's Monday. Oh, I should say, Happy Easter to anybody that's celebrating today, which is probably most places outside of the United States. So if today is your Easter, happy Easter. If you're not celebrating Easter, happy Monday, and I hope your everybody's week is well. I'm doing great though. How are you doing, man?‍

LedgerWorks – Warlock
I'm great, you know, He is risen and so have I. Trying to take this week with a vengeance, getting a lot of stuff done. I'm always pleased to hear David Melnick, our CEO, spoke on a Twitter space. That guy was, I think, born on a Twitter space. He's really good at talking for a long time, and unlike myself, the more he talks, the probability of embarrassing himself does not increase, which is something I struggle with. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
I'm trying to put together a Twitter space with some of the meme coins on Hedera, which I think would be a little bit of a crazy space given all the crazy drama that's gone on recently, so we won't get too deep into it. But I would love to add a minimum, nail down some of this stuff. Maybe it's just you definitively from the Crete's aspect, we do a separate one. But I would love to do a little bit of a spicy one at some point. If you're ever open for a spicy one.‍

LedgerWorks – Warlock
I'm always open for the spice. Spice is nice. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Yeah, no, it was a pleasure to have David up here today. We'll give HBAR to the Moon a couple more minutes to try to come back up. If not, what else is coming down the pike for the Creet's and the growth and all those aspects? I mean, you got the meme coin generator coming out on Hedera. I actually watched the video. It was pretty interesting. Not financial advice, very obviously to anybody down there listening. But you bring up some really interesting points about network adoption, and you know, we've been in so many spaces where I've heard people literally say, 'I got into crypto because of Doge,' or 'I got into crypto because of Shiba,' or 'I got into crypto because of XYZ.' So we can, you know, for me personally, for my personal account, I look at that stuff, and I'm like, but I also participate in the DeFi stuff back in 2021, late 2020, and a lot of that stuff was meme-generated. And you can't bastardize the power of community, and that really is what these meme coins kind of represent. So for you, for people to just completely wash it aside, totally understood if that's your decision, but you have to be able to pay attention to all the trends in the space. If you can, maybe just give us a quick overview of your thought process around that. And again, not financial advice to anybody listening. Would love to hear it. ‍

LedgerWorks – Warlock
Don't ever take financial advice from me. All my actual crypto investments where I paid money for a coin did terribly. So yeah, that aspect, don't listen to me. The other aspect, something to keep in mind is, you know, I didn't make Grelf to make money. I didn't think that anything was going to happen with Grelf. I made Grelf because I thought it was funny. If this bald, creepy Goblin man would represent a coin that people would buy, well, I did. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
I mean, I was looking the other, like, a couple of weeks ago, and it went, I'm gonna pivot back to the HBAR to the Moon, though, in one second here, Warlock. But I was looking a couple of weeks ago, and I can't even remember what it did. It was like, was it like a 26x or a 30x or something crazy like 200%? Yeah, I don't even remember. Lots of percents. Well, I guess that, I mean, I think we have HBAR to the Moon back up here. I'm going to get you guys on a 100 for a space because it's an interesting topic. You guys are building in the space. You've released a dual-faced meme coin, which is pretty interesting, so we'll definitely get you guys onto a space in the future, and appreciate you coming up and helping us to get through this space. I know each part of the moon's dealing with some technical difficulties here. Don't let me crash it. I know, I know, so, hey, it's part of the moon. So what I wanted to ask because we were touching based on some of the problems with current Hardware wallets and going on to docs.citadelwald.io, you have a bunch of use cases on here. A bunch of bullet points around what Citadel wallet supports: native crypto store and transfer, HTS fundable token association, NFT association. Yeah, NFT create, mint, freeze, burn, etc. I mean, just a plethora of stuff on here. How much of that is going to be accessible from kind of day one once people, you know, do receive their Hardware wallets, and how much of that is going to be built in over time? ‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Our goal is, by the time we go to market by the end of this year, all the services need to be supported at that time. So all the main ones that people are using on a day-to-day basis and native tokens, NFTs, native staking, scheduled transactions, Hbar transfers, obviously, and then from the project sites, which is one thing that is really interesting about this wallet is going to support administrative-type transactions, which means projects can now securely mint and burn and do those kinds of activities with their project accounts without risking their private keys. And with those kinds of projects, you can imagine if the private key is compromised for minting new NFTs into a collection, the whole project, which might have been in development for a year or two years, might be at risk, and there could be a lot of complications at that point. So I'm really happy that this wall is going to be beneficial to developers and projects, especially small ones who do not have too many funds to buy this really expensive secure kind of servers and computers. This could be a really great tool for those kinds of use cases as well. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
All right, I'm gonna ask the elephant in the room. When did you decide to go fidgetal, and if you guys aren't aware and you're listening down there, fidget, who was kind of, you obviously have a digital representation of something, but there's also a physical portion of something, which in this case, it's the hardware wallet or, you know, around NFTs? When did you guys decide to go physical, and what was the thought process around releasing the pre-sales of the Citadel wallet from an NFT purview? ‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, for people who follow me, they know I'm a huge fan of NFTs, and I really believe in NFTs being not just arts and collectibles, but they can bring amazing utility to brands and companies and projects to bring awareness to their projects when they're just starting up and bring those extra utilities and privileges to early supporters of the project. And I've been experimenting with NFTs really early on before even I started working on a hardware wallet, and I have another NFT project, H-bar bearing coin club, where I did have the physical coin, and people who bought the NFTs would get the physical coins with it. So, I've been already experimenting with this idea of digital NFTs for a long time, and I wanted to and I see the potential of this is going to be huge in the future, and I wanted to make sure that I bring that aspect to Citadel wallet as well, especially in a market where Hardware wallets are having a really hard time to break into this market because few players have a lot of financial resources and other support from bigger ecosystems. It's going to be really hard for a small hardware wallet project that has a very niche focus early on to break into this market, and I thought NFTs would be a great way to build that passionate community and make sure that when the project is successful, people who hold these NFTs from that collection supported it right from the beginning. We bring that value back to them and help the project evolve and grow even faster in the future. It has paid off, I would say already, having seen these many pre-orders. I think if I had gone just with a simple pre-order way through a website through traditional methods of payments, I would not get anywhere close to these numbers. 1600 wallet pre-orders with NFTs, adding that extra layer of brand building and community building to the project, and this could be a great example for any other digital type project that's looking to do something similar in the future. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Yeah, I could not agree more with that statement. It's a really interesting kind of aspect that you guys are facilitating around the hardware wallets. I do see Vet down there listening, and if you're not aware, Vet is from the XRPL community. The XRP Cafe guys from the NFT marketplace aspect are always consistently innovating, so he's probably writing down on a notepad right now. Maybe give HBAR to the Moon, and these guys will follow too because these guys Rog's head starter as well. I would like to ask you each part of the moon, like, you know, you briefly touched based on it, around releasing those NFTs, but I kind of want to know like how do you measure success within these pre-orders, or how have you already hit that benchmark in your eyes, and now it's just like okay, let's continue forward and deliver by the roadmap? Maybe your thoughts on what you're measuring success as right now, that'd be great. ‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, I do have a long-term plan how this project needs to evolve and grow, but initially, the most important thing for a hardware wallet product like this is to get the wallets in the hands of the people. And if they like it, if it's useful to people, and you know more than anybody else how important Hardware wallets are, and if we deliver on our promises and the wallet is slick, easy to use, very secure to interact with the network on a daily basis, that's when we'll see the rewards of this NFT project eventually when people start talking about the wallets. Initially, my goal was to get pre-orders of up to 5,000 wallets for supply chain reasons because more quantity you manufacture, the better the prices of the manufacturing costs get. So that was the reason I went with 5,000 goals at the beginning, but I'm not in any rush. I do want to get as many orders as possible by the time we go to market, get those wallets into the hands of the people so they can start using it and talk about the wallet. And I have no doubt that by that time, HBAR network is also going to evolve and more users are going to come onboard Hedera, and if we have this native hardware wallet that provides this user-friendliness and the security and convenience and reach feature sets. I have no doubt that people are going to adopt this kind of product, and we're going to grow eventually. In the short term, this is a massive success in my eyes. I have seen other hardware wallets try to break into the hardware industry, even supporting multiple networks, and they had no luck of getting even 100 wallet pre-orders early on. So this kind of number, 1600 wallets, it's just mind-blowing to me, and people keep pre-ordering the wallets. We haven't closed the pre-sale on Head Starter platform, so if anybody is interested, we are going to provide more updates as we develop the firmware for the device. We're going to have more tutorials, more updates, more interesting things we want to do with the NFT project itself. So over time, we just want to build this very successful community and a brand, and everybody hopefully is engaged and helps us eventually become successful. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Hey, I'm going to ask you potentially here, and this is a little bit of an off the cuff question. From The Citadel standpoint, given all the services that are going to be integrated into the wallet at the onset, looking at the strategic partners and the ecosystem partners that you have, so HashPack, Head Starter, Bionasis, Stader Lab, Saucer Swap, Kabuto, Hedera Sentient, HBAR Space, that looks like which I think they rebranded, Akila, Dead Pixel, Hangry, is there anything that you're working with these guys on the side with some of the native functionality to make it be a unique experience for those communities when Citadel does go live? I've got to ask the question because I'm sure there probably are. I don't know if you can touch base on it. ‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
So we have so many ideas, so many different things we're working on with different ecosystem partners, and I hope we grow the number of partners in the future. I wanted to start small and work with the most prominent projects early on, like HashPack, Head Starter, NFT projects, DeFi projects, Saucer Swap, Stator Labs. I want to make sure that, first of all, when the hardware wallet is available, we support all of the smart contracts on this DeFi platform so people can just go and sign any of the swap or providing liquidity to this. Yeah, so we want to make sure that all these projects that we have partnered with, we can bring the full support for their platforms and projects right when we go to market. So for HashPack, you can easily pair, create a Hedera account, and start signing transactions for any of the dApps that it connects to. For DeFi applications like Saucer Swap and Stader Labs, they have specific smart contracts. A lot of people don't want to risk and move their assets to a software wallet to be able to provide liquidity to these platforms or swap based on different pairs available on the on this DeFi platforms. You want to make sure smart contracts are supported by the hardware wallet so people can start engaging and participating in these platforms as well. Also, NFT marketplaces are becoming very popular. A lot of activity going on a day-to-day basis, and people pay a lot of money and HBARs to buy these NFTs. I have seen people who have upwards of 200 NFTs in their software wallet, which becomes very risky because that many NFTs could be a lot of value down the line if some of these NFT projects take off and become really successful. So mindset needs to change a little bit about people what kind of assets do people need to secure and keep safe through hardware wallets? And I'm just willing to partner and collaborate with any projects in the future. We want to start small, but we're going to integrate with any software wallet in the ecosystem. We start with HashPack, make sure that our SDKs are bug-free, and any other software wallet can integrate and pair with it. We collaborate with other wallets like Walla Wallet, Blade Wallet so they can also benefit from this extra security. And of course, I'm really excited about NFT projects like Dead Pixels, Hangry Barboones, and many more. I've been a long-time supporter of this project, and we want to do some really cool stuff with these projects. Like you can have your favorite profile picture as a background picture on the wallet display itself and have some really cool skins or cases with these projects' themes that are available to supporters of those projects. So there are so many things we're thinking about. Number one goal right now is to make sure that we build, complete building the wallet, get it into the hands of the people who can start using it, and do all those fun things in the future as well. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Alright, I've got two last questions for you. The first one is, given that the screen is going to be large enough to actually engage with the touchscreen on the wall of it, are there plans in the future, do you guys have to potentially make it kind of the Ledger Live experience that exists right now, where you have your Ledger but then you kind of have your portal that pops up whenever you're connected in from a Ledger Live experience? Or is it going to be natively within the wallet itself?‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
We haven't thought about something like Ledger Live yet, maybe in the future we have some kind of complementary software tool that you can connect to display all of your NFTs. But we are definitely not looking to become a software wallet. We want to make sure that people can use the software wallets that they're already used to and like, like HashPack, Blade, and others, and just have this extra device that connects and pairs with their software wallet so they don't have to go and learn a new software wallet, get used to the new user interface. But having something like a complementary tool that could maybe show all of your balances of your assets, all the NFTs that you hold in a graphically more appealing way. I think something like that could be possible in the future, but definitely not a software wallet. And the hardware wallet itself has very limited space for applications and data to store. We'll be able to allow people to store one or two images of their favorite NFT in the hardware wallet itself so they can display it and show off on Twitter and other social media places, and hopefully, that can help us also with promotions. But that's as much that's the extent of what we're looking at right now.‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
All right, second to last question here is probably one of the most important questions given during this interview, which is Q3 2023, you guys have audits, manufacturing, and testing. So conducting code audits through two third-party companies, how important is it for you guys to pick really stringent auditors? And I don't know if you can announce who you guys have auditing, but how much due diligence did you guys do in reaching out to different firms that were reputable that made sense to audit out the hardware wallets prior to the manufacturing and the shipment?‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, security audits are going to be the most important for our project, and we want to make sure that we collaborate and work with the most reputable companies in this space and also in the overall security space, not just blockchain because this is a hardware device, and we want to make sure that people who have an understanding of building these kinds of secure devices, they also go through the code and go to the hardware, have understanding of the hardware side of things as well, and try to find any bugs and issues with the design on the hardware or software side. From this from the software side, Head Starter has a lot of connections in this space. Tudor and we have already reached out to some of the most reputable Smart Security auditing firms, and they are excited for a product like this, and they're looking forward to when our software is ready for those audits. They're looking forward to working with us and provide that report to the community of what kind of security levels we're reaching. At the same time, I have reached out to a couple of companies that have developed software and firmware for Ledger Ledger Hardware wallet itself. I did want to make sure that I have I worked with another company that has experience building these kinds of embedded applications for hardware wallet devices, and they bring their expertise and knowledge into auditing and making sure that our device is highly secure as well. And on top of that, right now we're working with a third-party consultant who has a lot of experience in the banking space building smart cards and secure software for banking kind of payments and applications, and he is going to provide a full report on what kind of security attacks we have developed this firmware for and how we're going to mitigate those kinds of attacks, even attacks that are currently known to hack into Ledger wallet itself. We have done a lot of research. We have like a 30-page document already generated with all of the security aspects of this wallet listed in that document, and we're going to go one by one through all of them, make sure by the time we deliver this device to those security auditing firms, we have no concerns about passing that test. It's those auditing firms that really bring the trust and confidence in people to people from the community, so it's not just our word, but it's a third-party company saying it's secure.‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Awesome. And then last question, where would you like for people to go to learn more about all the aspects that Citadel is going to be facilitating from a hardware wallet standpoint?‍

Citadel Wallet – Andy - Founder
Yeah, if you want to learn more about the hardware wallets, we're building high-level. You can go on the website to the wallet.io. It has a lot of information about all of the hardware characteristics, functionalities available on the device, all the services we support, Hedera Network. If you want more technical information about the wallet, you want to dive in a little deeper, you can go to docs.wallet.io to learn about the hardware architecture, what kind of hardware components we use, what kind of use cases we're looking at. You touched on it a little bit earlier in this conversation, and any other question that anybody, if you're looking for specific information you can't find in those resources, feel free to reach out to us either just DM me or join our Discord. We have a community of over 2000 people who have already joined our Discord Channel. Very active. Everybody brings their own input, advices, comments, and questions, and we're always active there too, answering any questions that come up. So those would be the best ways to connect with us and learn more about the wallet. ‍

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
Now, awesome. Yeah, and thank you so much, Andy, for taking the time out today to talk to us. Same thing with David Melnick from Ledger Works. Thank you to Warlock for coming up and speaking with us today and filling a little bit of time. I know Twitter space has been super ruggy recently. Looking forward to doing the next H-bar space on this upcoming Monday at 3 P.M. and this Wednesday, we've got a pretty big cross-chain space as well. We've got Left Zero Punx, Casper Punx, XRPL Punx. We've got X Specter who actually just recently announced that their Chief Product Officer is Bob Way who basically was one of the original contributors into Interledger protocol and things like that, which is pretty ridiculous, and some other aspects as well. So, looking forward to doing a pretty big cross-chain space on Wednesday as well. Again, Andy, thank you so much. I really appreciate it and looking forward to watching all the aspects of Citadel wallet develop over the course of this year. And then same thing to Ledger Works and thank you to Warlock for coming up as well. We'll see you guys next time we do this. Thanks so much.